S03E18: THE MURDER OF SKYLAR NEESE

AJ: Coming up on this episode of Crime Family..

So after calling her friends who also didn't know where she was, David then went outside and he was concerned when he saw a small step stool underneath Skylar's bedroom window. The screen of the window was missing. Did somebody break into her bedroom window and kidnap her or did she maybe sneak out on her own?

So, because Rachel Shoaf and Shelia Eddy were so close to Skylar rumors started to go around that the two girls might be covering for Skylar and they must have some idea about what happened.

Katie: Yeah. And they were smart about it because they got their story exactly the way they wanted it so that, you know, they weren't going to get tripped up that way. It does definitely feel like they were planning on keeping this a secret for the long haul.

AJ: Not only does it look like a quasi confession, but she's putting this out there online for the world to see. In hindsight, knowing the details of it, it's very clear that this is a reference to Skylar's death.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Crime Family. I'm your co-host AJ and I'm here with my two sisters, Stephanie and Katie, just like always. This is actually our last episode before our two part season three finale. I can't believe that we're here at the season three finale already. It's been such a great season. I'm excited and this is a really good case I felt, right before our finale. This is a case that I have known about for a while. It always stuck out to me as a memorable one because of the seemingly bizarre, unexpected nature of it, and also how random it all seems. In fact, actually what's really creepy is this wasn't planned, but we're actually going to be releasing this episode on July 6th, 2022. That is exactly 10 years since the events of this case took place. They took place on July 6th, 2012, which is weird. Like I said, I didn't plan it, but when I started to do research on it, it was very eerie that it actually is going to be the 10 year anniversary, when this episode comes out. This is the Skylar Neese case and I'm just going to get right into it. So Skylar Neese was a 16 year old girl living with her two parents, Mary and David in Star City, West Virginia, back in July of 2012. Her mother Mary was an administrative assistant in a medical clinic and her father was a product assembler at Walmart. Skylar was born in 1996 and was David and Mary's only child. By all appearances, Skylar was just the typical teenage girl. She liked pretty much all the things that typical girls, her age did. She would spend lots of time with her friends. There was one friend Morgan Lawrence who was actually one of the first friends that she had ever made when she was a child and was one of her best friends. The two were often called sisters and the two girls' families were very, very close. Morgan and Skylar, like I said, were very close in elementary school, junior high, but the girls did drift apart a little bit once they entered their freshman year at University High School in Morgantown, West Virginia. They interview Morgan in an episode of Dateline about this case, and Morgan says that Skylar started hanging out with a different group of friends once they entered high school and she didn't really approve of some of the friends that she was hanging out with. Two friends in particular that Skylar started to get close to was Shelia Eddy and Rachel Shoaf. These two took Skylar under their wing and the three of them became inseparable. Morgan says, on Dateline that she didn't really approve of Skylar and Shelia's friendship because she knew that Shelia hung out with a different crowd and had a lot of older friends that she didn't think would be good for Skylar. She just didn't really want Skylar going down that path. She was always a bit wary of Shelia. Other friends of Skylar say that she was always with these two girls, Rachel and Shelia, and the three of them were known as the three Musketeers. There is a Dr. Phil episode on this case. Now I just have to preface it with saying I don't like the Dr. Phil show. I have many issues with Dr. Phil. He interviews Skylar's family and a lot of people who are close to Skylar. They do give some information that I feel is really important to the story. That's why I'm going to be using some of the information from the Dr. Phil episode when I talk about this case. I just wanted to preface with that. With that being said, according to a Dr. Phil episode on this case, he does speak with Skylar's parents, and they give a bit more context into the nature of Skylar's relationship and friendship with Shelia and Rachel. They say that she knew Shelia since she was about eight years old. Rachel Shoaf was a newer friend and Skylar's parents didn't know nearly as much about her as they did about Shelia. Skylar did have a part-time job. She worked at Wendy's. This job, school and hanging out with her new friends Shelia and Rachel took up pretty much all of her time during the school year. Those were the three things that kept her busy. On Thursday, July 5th, 2012, Skylar worked an evening shift at Wendy's and returned home later that night and got ready for bed. Her parents recount this in the Dateline episode. She told both her parents, she loved them and then headed off to bed for the night. It was the next day when her father David returned to the house around lunch hour. She wasn't home as he anticipated, so he called his wife, Mary, to see if she knew where Skylar was. Mary just assumed that she left in the morning to go hang out with her friends because it was the summer, she didn't have to go to school, so she thought maybe she just went to hang out with friends. After calling her friends who also didn't know where she was, David then went outside and he was concerned when he saw a small step stool underneath Skylar's bedroom window. The screen of the window was missing. Obviously, this was very concerning, but her parents didn't necessarily consider her missing at this point. Naturally you would just start thinking, did somebody break into her bedroom window and kidnap her? Did she maybe sneak out on her own? For whatever reason, there was a step stool underneath the window and the screen was missing. Somebody did go in or out through that window. Skylar's parents knew that she had a scheduled shift at Wendy's at 4:00 PM that afternoon. Their plan was, they were going to wait until 4:00 and they were going to call the restaurant shortly after that to see if Skylar had showed up for work. That was their game plan. However, it was actually the restaurant that called them first, shortly after 4:00 PM, asking where Skylar was, because she didn't show up for work. This is when they really start to panic. This began the official search for Skylar Neese because the fact that she wouldn't show up for Wendy's, which is a job that she loved and wasn't in contact with anyone that day was very alarming and unlike her. It was not long after this call from Wendy's that they actually got another phone call from Shelia Eddy, and she told Mary that she had to come forward with the truth. She admitted to Mary, that Skylar did sneak out of the house in the middle of the night last night to meet her and Rachel. This was not the first time this happened. The three girls had actually snuck out before and they were once caught out past the town's curfew and then they were brought back home. Sneaking out wasn't out of the realm of possibility because her parents knew that she had done it before, but Shelia says at this time they snuck out, they went for a joy ride and smoked a bit of pot. Then she and Rachel dropped Skylar off at the end of the street so that Skylar's parents wouldn't hear the car pulling up near the house. She says that they just dropped her off and they just drove off. That was the last time they saw Skylar, which was around midnight. After being told this, her parents finally called 9 1 1 and reported Skylar missing. This was their worst fear crossing their mind because after Shelia told them this, they thought that the worst had happened and that Skylar was abducted between the end of the street and the house in that few minute time window between when the girls dropped her off and when she would've gotten home. There was surveillance footage of the area that was obtained by police of the Neese's apartment building. It captures the moment that Skylar sneaks out and gets into the backseat of a white vehicle. However, the timestamp on the video is between 12 and 12:30 AM. I didn't get an exact time. There was no source I saw that set an exact time, but Skylar's mother says that it was between 12 and 1230. On this video you can see this white vehicle pulling up across the street, but still within view. Minutes later, you see Skylar running across the parking lot and getting into the car. She gets into the backseat of the vehicle, but it doesn't line up because if Skylar was dropped off by the two girls around midnight at the end of the street, how can the surveillance footage show Skylar sneaking out and getting into a car half an hour later? So immediately there are some questions that come up. Either the timestamp on the surveillance footage was wrong, which is possible. Either Shelia was lying or was mistaken about the time that they picked up Skylar. Or perhaps this person in this vehicle is someone else and maybe Skylar snuck out twice that night. Maybe she did go out once with Shelia and Rachel, then they dropped her off and then she snuck out again around 1230 to meet this other person. The footage is very grainy and the police cannot make out a license plate, so they don't really have much to go on. All that they really had to go on was the fact that Shelia and Rachel dropped Skylar off at midnight. Then Skylar is seen sneaking out half an hour later. Once news of the disappearance got out, tips came swarming in from all around the country because it was high profile at the time. She was considered a missing person and all of these tips ended up being dead ends. Officer Jessica Colebank was on the case from the beginning and was scouring through Skylar's records and found that she wasn't using her ATM card or her cell phone since she went missing. For someone who was a runaway, this is very unlikely. Quickly the idea that Skylar may have intentionally run away was not really a factor in the investigation, because obviously she would've used those things. Also they say that she had contacts and glasses and she never took those either, which would probably be something she would need. Police were very sure that Skylar was met with foul play by someone, possibly by the person in that white vehicle that was seen in the surveillance footage. As things go in small towns, rumors started running rampant about what could have happened to Skylar. According to that episode of Dateline, there were a series of bank robberies in a neighboring town that happened around the same time as Skylar's disappearance. Throughout the high school, there was this rumor that Skylar was at a party with the alleged bank robbers, and that she overdosed on drugs. The people at the party hid her body out of fear of being implicated. There's nothing substantial to back this up other than the town's rumor mill. It was really the only semblance of a lead that the police had early on in the case. You know how small towns are and high school students are, so because there was two or maybe three robberies in that neighboring town around the same time people were like, "oh, maybe it's involved." When people don't have anything to go on, they grasp at anything they can. Even an unlikely scenario is still better than the unknown. Even if no one likes the unknown and not knowing what happened people feel like they have some idea, even if it's ridiculous, they'll cling to it. Because Rachel Shoaf and Shelia Eddy were so close to Skylar, rumor started to go around as well at the school that the two girls might be covering for Skylar. They must have some idea about what happened. I mean, if Skylar was involved in some sketchy activity or was hanging out with some nefarious people, surely her two closest friends would have to know something, right? I mean, if they're really inseparable, as everyone says that they were, they would probably be two of the best sources of information. They might know something, Skylar might have mentioned something to them about people she was hanging out with or plans that she had. People thought that maybe they did know more than they were initially saying. When the students returned to school in the fall, Skylar had already been missing for nearly two months and there was no significant leads in the case at all. Daniel, he's a classmate of Skylar's and they interview him in the Dateline episode as well, he became suspicious that the two girls might know more information that they were admitting to. Either covering for Skylar herself or for someone else. It wasn't that he or the other students at the school necessarily thought that the two girls were the ones responsible, it's just that they thought that maybe they may have withheld some information out of fear that it would land them in more trouble, so they chose to keep quiet about where Skylar might be. Maybe they knew Skylar was hanging out with someone and they dropped her off and they knew she was meeting up with this other person, but for some reason, didn't want to come forward out of fear of what this other person could do or something, you know, that's what they were thinking. They weren't necessarily thinking that it was the two girls that were involved, but maybe that they just knew something that they weren't saying. It wasn't long before the FBI started poking around the school and asking students questions about Skylar's disappearance. Two people that they did ask questions to were Rachel and Shelia. One thing that the detectives noticed was that the two girls stories never varied. They told the same consistent and realistic story of their night with Skylar. If you listen to just their stories, it makes perfect sense. Once the investigators started mapping out their story and then comparing it to some evidence that they already had there were a few inconsistencies. For one, there was convenience store surveillance footage that showed the girls heading west, not east, as they both claimed. Rachel's cell phone pinged on a cell phone tower in Blacksville, which was a neighboring town. That was the town that had the series of bank robberies around the same time. Their story had always been that they drove around, but that they had gone in a different direction. If they had gone east like they said that they would not have driven through Blacksville. There were some inconsistencies in their story. After months of their consistent story ,so like I said, the FBI were interviewing many people and the girls, and they always had the same story and it never wavered. But after months of this consistent story, Rachel did finally start to crack. She eventually did admit to going to Blacksville that night but she said that Skylar asked the two girls to let her out in Blacksville, not down the street from her house, as they originally said. So if that story was true and she was in Blacksville then that puts her in the same town that those robberies happened and that would be in line with that rumor that she was at a house party with these bank robbers and that maybe something happened to her at the house party. Them dropping her off at Blacksville, I guess goes in line with those rumors that were going around, but then what about the fact that Skylar is seen on her apartment building security footage leaving her house at 12:30. Did the girls just have their timing wrong? Maybe they picked her up at 12:30 instead of dropping her off at 12. One thing that the investigators mentioned in the Dateline episode was that the day after Rachel admitted to dropping Skylar off in Blacksville, Shelia's story changed to match. Investigators say this was a red flag. As the weeks dragged on the pressure mounted for the two girls. Like I said, rumors were circulating. There were lots of different stories going on and people were becoming more and more suspicious. The FBI continued to ask questions around the school and on December 28th, 2012, this would've been five months after Skylar went missing, it seems that the pressure was just too much for Rachel to take and she snapped. On this day, the police receive a frantic 911 call from Rachel Shoaf's mother saying that "Rachel's out of control. She's hitting us, she's screaming, she's running through the neighborhood." You can clearly hear Rachel in the background of the call, frantically screaming. She's clearly in the midst of a full on outburst or breakdown. There are some people who were on the Dr. Phil show, that he interviews, neighbors who say Rachel tried to hit her mother over the head with a lit candelabra, and eventually locked herself in her room saying that she wanted to die. As a result, Rachel was taken to a mental health facility for observation, and she was there for a few days and it was soon after this that she asked if she could meet with investigators to tell them something. It was in this meeting on January 3rd, 2013, that Rachel admitted for the first time to being involved in what happened to Skylar. She said, "We stabbed her." As the story unravels, the true depravity of Skylar's killing is revealed. So before I go a little bit further into the details, do you guys have any thoughts so far?

Stephanie: I was just thinking, as you were reading this case, it all came back to me. I remember watching the news about this case and thinking to myself, how could these friends be so cruel? You'll get into the case further. These girls are very vindictive.

Katie: Yeah. I'm not familiar with this case so I'm intrigued to see where it goes, but I'm just very surprised that they were able to hold it together for as long as they did. I feel like even just a couple days of FBI people questioning you would be enough for you to crack. So the fact that they went months is, you know, impressive.

AJ: Yeah. I was thinking that too. Sometimes people can't even handle one FBI interview or police interview before they give in, so to speak. It is crazy that they did go this long.

Katie: Yeah. They were smart about it. They got their story exactly the way they wanted it so that they weren't going to get tripped up that way. It does definitely feel like they were planning on keeping this a secret for the long haul for sure.

AJ: Yeah. Like you said, five months or whatever it was is a long time to keep this sort of secret. Especially considering how severe the secret was. It's on January 3rd, 2013 that Rachel admits for the first time that she and Shelia were involved. She does say, "We stabbed her." This is the information they gather from Rachel's confession and then other parts of the investigation. Shelia and Rachel planned to kill Skylar for months before it happened. They both decided that the night of July 5th would be the night that they would do it. In an interview with Dateline, a police investigator says that Rachel outlined the details of the planning and the killing in her initial interview where she confesses. This included obtaining the shovel earlier that day from her father's house, putting it in Shelia's trunk. They brought the clean clothes, cleaning supplies, and according to Rachel, Shelia had provided the kitchen knives. As it turns out it was Shelia's car in the surveillance footage that the police saw and their whole story of dropping her off at midnight down the street was just a total lie. It was just another detail in their intricate story to try to throw police off of their trail. The girls drove around for nearly an hour and they did drive through Blacksville. That's why Rachel's cell phone pinged off the tower there. They didn't drop Skylar off in Blacksville, like they later said. Instead they took her out to a dark wooded area down some winding dirt roads and cornered her. Rachel claims that they counted to three and on three, the two girls started stabbing Skylar repeatedly. Skylar's father Dave recalls in that Dr. Phil interview, that Rachel says, at some point during all this, that Skylar did manage to get the knife away from Rachel at one point and then stabbed Rachel in the leg with it. Rachel says that she stopped the attack after this happened, but Shelia was the one who kept going and finished it off. The two girls allegedly admitted that after 50 stabs they stopped counting. The girls hit a major artery early on in the attack and Skylar bled out. Rachel says that Skylar's last words were, "Why?" The girls admitted that they tried to dig a hole for the body, but the ground was too hard so they just covered her in leaves and branches next to a log instead. Once Skylar's body was covered, they changed out of their bloody clothes and into the clean clothes that they had brought. They wrapped up the kitchen knives they used and took Skylar's purse with them. The investigator recalls on the Dateline episode as well, that Rachel admitted in this interview that," the murder was something she wanted to get done before she went to church camp." I just wonder how could somebody just kill one of their best friends so callously, plan it for so long and then just admit and say they just wanted to get it done before church camp. To me, that's crazy. A family friend says that the day after the murder, she actually spent a day on the family boat with Rachel and she didn't act any different at all. There was no signs and this would've been just 12 hours after she just brutally murdered her best friend. This family friend says you wouldn't even think it based on the way she was acting. We spent the day together. She was totally normal. The fact that somebody could kill their best friend and then 12 hours later, spend a nice day on a boat and not have any behavior changes is pretty indicative, I feel of who Rachel is as a person. Creepy.

Katie: Yeah. I feel like she's definitely a sociopath. I guess I'm surprised when you told me they had planned it all out, even though I'm not surprised by the way they had planned what their story was afterwards. It just seems crazy for kids that young to do something like that and plan it out so carefully. It's nuts.

AJ: I know, I think one of the most shocking parts, other than the fact that they did it ,was that they did plan it out for months. There's a lot of moments in that timeframe to back out of it or to reconsider what you're going to do. The fact that they actually stuck with it and did it months later, they were that determined to do it. They're only young 16, 17, it's crazy that they could be capable of something like that.

Katie: Yeah. I was thinking it was going to be an accident and then they panicked and covered it up. It's really crazy that they planned it for, so long.

Stephanie: I just don't understand why? Were they jealous of her? Did they just want to kill to see what it was like? Which is the sad part. To me, when I first was watching this case develop back when it happened, I'm just like, "Why? They were close friends. I don't understand how somebody could just do that."

AJ: I get a bit into the why of it later. The fact that Rachel admitted it in this interview. It's not like she came up with an initial story of, "Oh it was an accident. Then this is what happened." Then later changed her story. Her first admission was the full story. Which is crazy. There is a neighbor of Rachel's as well that says that the FBI did come around quite a bit with search warrants during the initial investigation. They eventually did come across her diary and there is an entry dated the day after the murder. In this, Rachel writes something to the effect of, "God, help me. What happened last night is between you and I. Please forgive me for all these lies." That's implicating as well. That's literally the day after the murder and she's writing that in her journal. Although that is technically circumstantial because if she actually full-on says what it was, but she's alluding to something pretty major having happened. As for the why, which was so sad. Unfortunately Skylar's last words were, "Why?" The why is equally as perplexing. Rachel would only say to investigators at that time that they just didn't like Skylar, but that's all that she would say. There are several cell phone videos of the three girls together laughing very clearly acting like best friends. So I just question, were Rachel and Shelia just pretending to like her this whole time, just so that they could gain her trust and then just murder her in cold blood. I always wonder if that was the intention from the very beginning, if they were just evil and wanted to do that, or if it was later on something happened that turned them against her. It's just so confusing to me, their motivation. Rachel did lead police out to the body after this confession, which was in a wooded area, just over the Pennsylvania border. The remains that were found were later positively identified as Skylar's remains. This would've been six or so months after she was killed. The remains were probably decomposed by then, but they were identified as Skylar's and there was an interesting detail in all of this that I found shocking and it's that the police did not arrest Rachel immediately upon finding Skylar's body. Police detective Ronnie Gaskin says that because Rachel had lied so many times before, there was nothing to say that she wasn't lying this time and that corroborating her story was the next step before an arrest could be made. In the Dateline episode he says that and the interviewer was asking him, "Why wasn't she arrested? She literally confessed to a murder and then led you to the body." He said, "Well, we have to corroborate that because she's lied before. So how do we know this is real?" She's leading you to a body of a murder she just admitted to. Pretty damning evidence. I feel it's crazy that they don't arrest her right then and there.

Katie: Yeah. I feel like people have been arrested for a lot less.

AJ: Yeah. They're literally not coming to you with a full, detailed story and the location of the body and they still get arrested. The fact that they had more than enough to arrest her and didn't. So because they didn't arrest her, they decide that they're going to do an undercover sting operation next. In this undercover operation, the police decided to use Rachel in order to coax a confession out of Shelia. They set up a scenario where Rachel would invite Sheila over to her house and try to get Sheila to incriminate herself in Skylar's death. There's hidden cameras that were installed in the home that captured every moment of this encounter. Unfortunately, no confession came. There was no direct mention of Skylar's death by Shelia. So when this didn't work, the FBI gained a warrant for Shelia's house instead where they seized every kitchen knife and Shelia's car. Inside Sheila's car trunk, they did collect DNA samples that were then sent for forensic testing. One thing that did come up a lot in the Dr. Phil episode was that throughout the entire investigation and the Memorial services and everything that they had for Skylar, Shelia always seemed very distraught. Her friend said that she seemed very upset at the loss of her best friend and was tweeting things out constantly, such as, "Worst day of my life. Rest easy Skylar. You'll always be my best friend. I miss you more than you could ever know." David and Mary even recall a day when Shelia came over to their house and asked to go to Skylar's room. She sat on the bed with Mary and cried and would say, "How could she do this to us? I'm her best friend? Why doesn't she call me?" This is when Skylar was still missing. This would've been really soon after, probably the day of, or the next day. They say, so all of that seems to be a total act when you know that Shelia not only committed the murder herself, but planned it for months leading up to it, alongside Rachel and attempted to cover it up for months. Just so crazy. I keep coming back to how can a teenager be so evil to just do that to her best friend for no reason? It seems totally random. An act of someone who's totally evil for sure. What is still shocking is that by April of 2013, so this would've been nearly four months after Rachel confessed, she and Shelia are still free. There's no criminal charges that are against them. They're out living their regular lives. It seems very strange for someone to admit to a murder and lead you to the body and then they still aren't arrested. In fact, they seem to be living carefree lives, according to their social media accounts. They were always posting on social media. Rachel posted one time saying, "I need a mimosa or 10." Just living typical teenage lives as if nothing was wrong. There is an eerie tweet that was put out by Shelia on March 31st, 2013 saying, "We really did go on three." This seems like a direct reference to the fact that she and Rachel counted to three before stabbing Skylar to death that night. Rachel's story was that they counted to three and then on three they went. So not only does it look like a quasi confession from Shelia, but she's putting this out there, online for the world to see. It's ominous and no one would really know what that meant, but in hindsight, knowing that details of it, it's very clear that this is a reference to Skylar's death, and this is in March, 2013. This is after the FBI's been asking questions and all that suspicions around them. It seems very odd that she would put that tweet out while all of that's happening. It's very bold of her, for sure.

Katie: She just seems very narcissistic even going to the whole planning thing. She said they hated Skylar and for them to think that they, you know, have the right to kill her, just because they don't like her or it almost seems to me like it could be something petty like, I don't know, some guy liked Skylar and they were jealous, so they decided to kill her. Shelia just seems like she's acting and pretending she doesn't know. She almost feels like she got away with it by posting. It just seems like typical narcissistic behavior.

AJ: Yeah. It's definitely narcissism and sociopath behavior. I can't even understand why someone would even think, but I guess you said like narcissism, why you would even think that you could put something like that out there knowing there's all this suspicion. You're going to still tweet that out, knowing that people who are suspicious of you are going to see that and are going to infer what it means.

Stephanie: If you don't like somebody don't be friends with them. Just go the other way.

AJ: I know.

Stephanie: If they hated her so much, then why be friends with her? I don't understand.

AJ: That's also too what I don't really understand, because like I said before, I couldn't figure out if it was their plan all along to do this. They were just that evil or if it was something specific that happened that turned them against her later on. There's more of an answer a bit later that I will get into. A theory that's out there. The DNA results from Shelia's trunk that the FBI took did come back in April, 2013 and were confirmed had belonged to Skylar. This finally gave the police the smoking gun that they needed. They knew that there was Skylar's DNA in the trunk of that car. On May 1st, 2013, Rachel pled guilty to second degree murder. That same day that Rachel pled guilty, the police went and apprehended Shelia and charged her with first degree murder. Shelia was out for dinner with her mother at the Cracker Barrel restaurant when the police or the FBI came and arrested her. Just an interesting detail. According to Dateline, Rachel pled guilty to the lesser charge of second degree murder because of her cooperation with the police earlier in the investigation. I guess that was their deal. They say, "If you help us you can get second degree." Shelia was given the heavier charges of first degree murder, which paints her as the aggressor, and Rachel as someone who might have just been coaxed into it by Shelia. There was that debate of who out of the two girls was the aggressor, so to speak. It's crazy that Rachel could even plead guilty to second degree murder. She literally admitted to planning it out for months, which is the exact opposite of second degree murder. It's crazy that they still allowed her to do that, but I guess if they had a deal with her that she helped them, that they had to allow that. Shelia's cousin, Chrissy Swanson says on Dr. Phil, that she believes Rachel was the mastermind behind it all, because she says that Rachel was, "creepy." She told Shelia that she never wanted to be around Rachel. She gave an overall creepy vibe. Shelia and Chrissy were very close so Chrissy's adamant that Shelia would not be capable of masterminding the murder. It's not in line with the person that she knew her whole life. She also says to Dr. Phil, that she, and this episode of Dr. Phil's from 2014, so this would've been right after the trials happened. It's eight years ago now, but she says that she had written back and forth to Shelia, since her arrest, but not once did Shelia ever mention the case, mention anything about what happened? It's almost as if she was trying to detach herself from it all. It's also very awkward small talk with someone. How are you not gonna talk about that? It's literally the elephant in the room. So do you guys have any thoughts maybe about who you think might have been the aggressor? I mean, they're both obviously guilty if they both did it and they both knowingly did it and planned it, but do you have an opinion of who may have been the initial instigator?

Katie: First of all I think it's crazy that even just one person would do this. If you come up with this idea and then bring it forward to your best friend and they're like, "Yeah, let's do it." That's crazy that both of them are doing it. To find two people that are willing that's nuts! I think that it might be Shelia that is the aggressor because I don't think she had any plans to come forward. She didn't break like Rachel did. Maybe Rachel actually had some sort of conscience and you know, was actually maybe feeling a bit of guilt. Whereas Shelia didn't feel anything.

Stephanie: I'm the opposite. I feel Rachel was the one behind the whole plan. The reason why she cracked was because she just couldn't handle them not knowing the truth. She needed to tell the truth of what really happened. I feel like Shelia was there to help her. I feel Rachel is the one who planned it out and asked Shelia to help.

AJ: Interesting. I am leaning towards that it was Shelia. I guess we'll never know, but I guess looking back, it's probably Shelia's biggest mistake, if she was the aggressor, that she had Rachel help. If it was just Shelia who did it on her own then it might never have been discovered. Right? The only thing that really led to this was Rachel's confession. She had that breakdown. Right? That's what got the ball rolling and all this other evidence. I feel like Shelia could have got away with it if it was just her on her own. Like you said Katie, you said Rachel was the one who broke. Shelia, didn't say anything and probably wouldn't have. From researching this case I get the sense that it was more Shelia if I had to guess. Obviously we will never really know, but I just feel Shelia was a much more calculated, cold sort of person. I mean, obviously they're both pretty fucked up for doing it. They were both involved. During the lengthy investigations and the court proceedings the truth did come to light a bit by witnesses and students at the school. These students say that they could see Shelia and Rachel turning on Skylar. They would rant about how much they didn't like her to other friends. There's one friend in the Dateline episode who recounts an interaction that she had with Rachel. Rachel says," I wouldn't mind if she died." These comments were dismissed as jokes and throw away comments, "Just teenagers saying crazy things." No one knew obviously that it was actually going to come to fruition by these same girls only months later. It's very easy for these people to just dismiss it as nothing. It's crazy that it actually did turn into something. There was one video that was found on a cell phone. This was taken about six months before Skylar's death. It's very creepy in retrospect, but it shows the three girls, they're playing this game, talking about ways in which they would like to die. It's one of those would you rather games. They're saying, "Would you rather suffocate or get shot, et cetera?" So Sheila's asking these questions and then it's Rachel and Skylar that are answering. They're saying, "Oh, I'd rather get shot than suffocated." It's just really creepy to listen to it in retrospect. Were they playing this game to get an idea from Skylar? How they were going to do it? It's a really weird game to be playing. Very creepy! Nothing concrete ever did come out about the motive behind Skylar's death. The Dateline episode on this case does suggest that there were rumors at the school going around that Rachel and Shelia were involved in a sexual relationship with each other and that Skylar found out about it. The two of them decided to kill her in order to keep this a secret. I remember when I watched the Dateline episode recently, for research for this case, it's mentioned very briefly in the Dateline episode. A couple of minutes saying, "Oh, this could potentially be something," but it just stopped there. I just thought this is stupid. It's just like high school drama and rumors. Everyone needs to add a bit of, you know, salacious details to everything. Right? I didn't really think much of it, but watching the Dr. Phil episode, they actually have Skylar's friend Shania on that episode. She says that Skylar actually told her that Rachel and Shelia had sex with each other one night while they were drinking at Rachel's house and that Skylar witnessed it. Then Skylar's mother also confirms on the Dr. Phil show that she read a journal entry written by Skylar that tells that same story. She knew that this friend, Shania was being honest about that because she also read it in Skylar's diary. So then when I read that or watched that, I was, "Okay, well there's something substantial to this rumor." I mean, it's not just a rumor, obviously, if Skylar's writing it in her journal, obviously why would she write that if it didn't happen? Now I'm definitely thinking that is something that did happen. There's nothing else other than this, to back up that theory. Again, it's just rumors and other than that diary entry, it's the only semblance of an answer that we have as to why they did it. Other than just the cold, "We didn't want to be friends with her anymore." excuse that the girls gave. They've always just said, "Well, we didn't like her. We didn't want to be friends with her so we killed her." Which seems obviously drastic. It's just crazy! I'm thinking there's a bit more truth to maybe that rumor considering what I saw on the Dr. Phil show. Like I said speaking of salacious details, I feel like Dr. Phil adds salacious details to everything and sensationalizes everything for rating. I always hate to use his episodes as any concrete anything. I think the fact that it was, you know, Skylar's own family and friends that were on the show, and Skylar's mother saying that she read that in Skylar's journal, that's the only thing that made me bring it up. Otherwise it would've been Dr. Phil just trying to create some sort of drama. Did you guys have any thoughts about that or, I mean, I'm assuming you guys probably obviously would believe what they're saying.

Katie: I feel like it does make sense because now they have this relationship that's deeper than just friendship. If you have those feelings for someone, then it makes it more likely that you would do something like this with them or for them, if one of them wanted to do it. It does make sense.

AJ: Yeah.I actually never thought of that angle too. It's like they were in that deeper relationship, which would make it easier for Rachel to agree to that if Shelia mentioned it or vice versa. I never really thought of it from that angle. If they're 16 and 17 and you have the secret and you don't want anyone to know, then this one person knows you're going to do anything. To me it's weird because they did it while Skylar was there. You know what I mean? They weren't trying to hide it from Skylar and then she found out. They knew that they were letting Skylar in on that secret. Then later decided that they wanted to kill her. Maybe Skylar went and threatened them. Maybe they got in a fight and Skylar threatened that she was going to tell someone or something. Then that's why they killed her, which is still drastic.

Katie: Or maybe, you know, they wanted Skylar to be a part of it too, and she wasn't having any of it and they were embarrassed and their narcissism again, she rejected them. That could be something as well. I think because the fact that if they were in love with each other, it makes it more likely that they would do something like this for each other.

AJ: Yeah. that makes sense because otherwise you'd think, why wouldn't they just go to the police. "This girl just asked me to kill someone. I'm not going to do that." I guess you're young and you don't think like that. You're more susceptible and gullible. There was this anonymous source that came forward to somebody on the Dr. Phil show. They disguised his voice when they play the video, but apparently this anonymous source comes forward and says, "Oh yeah, Skylar told me, or I heard through the grapevine that Skylar videotaped Rachel and Shelia having sex." There was a sex tape that she threatened to release. Skylar's parents, it's kind of funny, seem like they're calling Dr. Phil out, they're like, "That's ridiculous. Just drama." Basically saying, "Stop trying to sensationalize this." That was definitely the vibes I was getting. I was, "Okay, this is ridiculous." He played it on the show as if it was something substantial and it was just stupid. I mean, it definitely does seem plausible that Skylar did know something. If Shelia and Rachel were in some type of intimate relationship and Skylar found out about it, that would be more of a motive, obviously. It doesn't make sense to any of us. It's crazy, but sometimes people just don't have the foresight and they're just killing someone that doesn't seem as bad as the secret getting out. It was decided that both girls would be tried as adults, even though they were minors at the time of the murder. Then in January, 2014, Shelia pled guilty to the first degree murder charge. She was given a life sentence with an option for parole in 15 years, which would put her earliest release in 2029. As I said before, Rachel did plead guilty to second degree murder and was sentenced to 30 years in prison with parole after 10 years. As a result, Rachel could hypothetically get out as early as 2024. Also in the Dateline episode, there's a therapist that visits Rachel in prison since her conviction. She tells Dateline that every day Rachel expresses sincere remorse for her actions and knows that her actions were wrong. Then on the flip side, others have said that Shelia has not expressed any remorse for her actions. I feel like it's a conflict of interest and bad for the therapist to go on national TV and say what her client is telling her. As a result of this case, there is Skylar's Law that has been implemented in West Virginia. This is a law that requires an Amber alert to be released immediately. There's these four criteria that need to be met in order for an alert to be released. Skylar's Law would require that an Amber alert be released, even if all four of these criteria are not met. If it's suspected that the child just ran away on their own it's law now that there has to be an Amber alert. In this case, obviously there wasn't an Amber alert that was issued because the criteria were not met and 48 hours must pass before an alert is issued, but now that's changed. At least that's one silver lining from this tragic case. Unfortunately it took Skylar dying for that to happen. But you know, if we're looking forward, at least it's something positive that came out of it in West Virginia anyway. That's the Skylar Neese case. Did you guys have any final thoughts or what are your overall feelings?

Katie: Yeah, I'm glad that that 48 hour rule is gone. I can't imagine being a parent and your child is missing and you have to sit around for two days before you can alert the public. That seems nuts. So that's good. Also I feel like 10 years definitely is not enough. Hopefully Rachel does not get out in 10 years. I think we talked about this before, I don't know what is enough, but 10 is not. 30 years I feel is more appropriate for sure.

AJ: Yeah. She's obviously eligible for parole in 10 years, so who knows if she'll even meet that criteria, but it's crazy. This happened in 2012, but the trial was 2014. It's already been eight years she's been in prison so she could get out in two years, hypothetically. Shelia would get out in potentially in 2029.

Stephanie: You mentioned the therapist came in to talk to them, I can see now that maybe Shelia was behind the whole thing. She doesn't show remorse. She's just so cold inside, where Rachel was sorry for what she did. She felt guilty. I can see where Shelia would be the one to plan it and go ahead with it. Rachel was just there to tag along.

AJ: Yeah. I feel like from my perspective just watching some of the court footage, it seems like they both were very tearful and cried during the sentencing. To me, it seemed like Shelia was just crying for herself." Oh, I'm crying. I have to go to prison for this long." Whereas Rachel seemed a bit more sincere in terms of like, "Oh, I'm actually crying because I feel bad for what I did," versus Shelia just being like, "Well, shit. Now I'm in jail." Again that's just me. I'm not an expert in body language, so I don't know. I'm just saying, from watching it objectively, I feel that's the vibe I got.

Katie: Yeah. Or Rachel is just way more manipulative and is able to put on a show for people to think that she has remorse when really she doesn't at all. Maybe she's just a better actress than Shelia.

AJ: That's true. That's true. And obviously it's clear from the Dr. Phil episode, Skylar's parents, they obviously have never forgiven the two girls, back in 2014 anyway. They are still extremely angry and very resentful, obviously. Something that's really sad too that they talk a lot about is they actually defended the two girls early on when there was all those rumors going around and the suspicion. They were so close with Shelia specifically. They knew her well because Skylar was friends with her. They supported her when all the rumors were going around, saying, "Don't let those rumors get you down. We're here for you if you need support." They really didn't think Shelia had anything to do with it. Their regret is that they did that. They feel really gullible that Shelia made them feel bad that they were being looked at when really they obviously, they had good reason to be suspicious. So it's really sad.

Katie: Oh yeah. That's frustrating. That adds another layer of deception and just shittiness. I definitely wouldn't forgive them either.

AJ: Yeah. Who could forgive someone for doing that and especially because like I said, they'd spent so much of their time defending the same people who actually killed their daughter, not knowing that they had done it. What's interesting too, is the fact that Shelia really was manipulative in going out of her way, because she was the one who called Skylar's parents right away admitting saying, "Oh yeah, we snuck out." Then came up with the story of how they dropped her off. I mean, obviously she was hiding things, but it's also that added layer of manipulation. She could have just said nothing.

Katie: Yeah. It seemed like it was so well planned. Every little step they had planned out. There was a meaning behind it. Right? They didn't have to tell Skylar's parents, but the fact that they did felt like it was helping her in their eyes and it, you know, did in the beginning. I feel like it's all very calculated.

AJ: Yeah. I just know for me, if I was trying to put myself in Skylar's parents' position, if you know your daughter's missing and then her best friend calls and says, "Okay, I'm going to come forward and say we did sneak out last night, but this happened." That would make me not think that they're involved because why would they come out with that at all? So the fact that they did do that, it was very calculated.

Katie: Yeah. They're trying to help, even though they're admitting that they did something wrong, but they're still trying to help.

AJ: It's just crazy. I just feel really bad for Skylar's parents and obviously all of her friends. It's just really sad that the two people who are so young could actually be capable of something like that. It's just very scary.

Stephanie: I just hope that Rachel doesn't get out in two years from now. Who knows if maybe she does feel bad for what she did, but like Katie said, she could be very manipulative. I'll just be very concerned if she does get out in two years.

AJ: Yeah. There was almost a point too, during the Dr. Phil episode, where I was thinking, it almost doesn't even matter the why necessarily. There was so much time spent trying to figure out why they would do this. You want to know what could make someone do this, but at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter if one was the aggressor, one wasn't, they both did it and Skylar's dead as a result of it. You know what I mean? So it almost doesn't even matter who was more responsible than the other. It's still interesting to know those details and you want to know just naturally, but it doesn't really matter.

Katie: Yeah. I feel like it doesn't matter either, because like you had said before, they planned it for months and they could have backed out. Either one of them could have backed out at any time or told somebody about it and neither one of them did that. So I feel like they're equally as guilty regardless of who came up with the initial idea. They both carried it out.

AJ: Yeah. It's just crazy that Rachel got second degree murder. Shelia got first degree when clearly Rachel should have gotten first degree as well. It's literally first degree. They planned it for months. That's actually the exact opposite of second degree.

Katie: I know it's crazy that she can get second degree even though it clearly wasn't. It was first degree, but I guess that's just how it works.

AJ: I know. It's wild. At the end of the day, they didn't even need Rachel's help after her initial confession, when she tried to do this sting operation to get Shelia to confess. It didn't lead to anything. Rachel didn't actually help at all other than giving that initial confession. That wasn't even anything that was coaxed by the FBI. She just came out herself and did that.

Katie: Yeah, I think if you do turn yourself in or come forward, then they are more lenient. If you try and keep it a secret and hide everything forever is when you're going to be in the most trouble usually. Rachel maybe knew that so that's why she came forward. This is another example of her manipulation.

AJ: Yeah. It's just really, really scary at the end of the day. They're just so young and obviously it's really tragic for Skylar and her family.

So that's the Skylar Neese case. We hope you enjoyed the episode. As always you can follow us on all the social medias. We're @crimefamilypodcast on Instagram. We're @crimefamilypod1 on Twitter, and we are on Facebook @Crime Family Podcast. You can also check out our website, crimefamilypodcast.ca. You can listen to all of our episodes there. You can also send us an email crimefamilypodcast@gmail.com. If you want to send us a case suggestion or give your feedback. Also, if you listen on apple podcasts, give us a review. We love to get reviews. We want to hear what you think of the show. Next week is our big two part season finale. We are going to be doing another two parter for the finale. We're excited for that. Definitely tune in. It's been a great season. We're almost at the end, so thank you guys so much for listening. We'll see you next week for our finale. Until then, take care.

Katie: Bye.

Stephanie: Bye.