S03E02: THE SOCIAL MEDIA MURDERS

Katie: [00:00:00] Coming up on this episode of Crime Family.

And so when they go upstairs to get something to cover up Janae, they find that there is still a man in her house and he is in the process of trying to kill himself. 

AJ: Who that morning, which happened to be Easter Sunday, he woke up and had no idea that he would soon be the victim of unspeakable violence. He was gunned down on the street, not only in broad daylight, but on the internet for the world to see. 

Steve Stephens: I ashamed for history, I ashamed they don't make it. And the most important, y'all I ashamed myself. I snapped, I snapped. , Dog, I just snapped dog. I just snapped. That's what I did. I killed 13 people and I'm about to keep killing until, until, until they catch me. 

Katie: Like stresses me out from the moment it starts, you know, but it's like a, a real live video like this, that was stressful.

[00:01:00] 

Katie: Hey everyone. Welcome to episode two of our third season of Crime Family. We're really excited to be back. I'm Katie and I'm here with Steph and AJ and we're really excited to have season three underway. 

[00:02:00] Last week we talked about the Crystal and Kylen case, which was intertwined with the Gabby Petito case in the beginning, and in that episode, we kind of touched on the importance of social media in Gabby's case and how it helped gain a huge following for Gabby and helped gather insight into what happened to her and ultimately helped solve her case. And it also helped to shed some light on Kylen and Crystal's case, just because of the initial thought that the cases were connected. And so this involvement with social media got us thinking about the flip side of social media, the dark side of online social platforms, and the dangers that are out there. 

So in the age of social media, billions of people around the world have instant access to platforms that allow them to share their thoughts, feelings, and daily lives with everyone in real time. There are several benefits to the instant access the social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram provide, such as giving a voice to the voiceless, fostering online communities where people [00:03:00] feel they belong, and the ability to instantly communicate and engage with both friends and strangers from anywhere in the world.

However, as everyone knows, every rose has its thorns and social media is certainly no exception. Sometimes these thorns take the form of dark twisted and mostly unexplainable acts of violence. So in this week's episode, we're going to discuss crimes and murders that allowed those evil intentions to use social media as platforms to an act of murderous desires. And today's cases did not get nearly enough media coverage. Like for me anyway, we, I didn't even hear about these cases until we actually went digging for them and they reveal terrifying realities that can accompany social media presence, especially like a big social media presence when you have tons of followers that can bring many fans and supporters. But it can also bring the haters and the trolls and even dangerous people that bring threats into your DMs [00:04:00] and some can even go as far as bringing their sinister intentions into reality. And it seems like no matter what anyone does, there will always be someone, there will always be people out there that are trying to tear you down.

Crimes like stalking and harassment of all types, have been around for a long time and we often hear about it most with famous people, because a lot of celebrities have had stalkers in the past and even some of them have turned really dangerous and even deadly. Now though, we have a whole new level of access to people's lives and it's easier to see a glimpse into someone's life, to anyone's life, who uses social media. 

Just like in-person stalking and harassment, different forms of cyber bullying are illegal in Canada and, and of course, other countries around the world. And in Canada, this includes things such as sharing intimate photos without consent, cyber-stalking, incitement of hatred, intimidation, uttering threats, and things like that. [00:05:00] And all of these things that used to happen only in person physically can now happen to anyone that opens themselves up online and especially to people who have a big online presence with lots of followers and lots of people who both love and hate what they might be doing online. When I hear the term cyber bullying, what comes to mind first for me, at least, isn't adults. It's you think of bullying and you think of kids and we all know kids can be really cruel and mean at school, but now they have this other outlet where bullying and harassment can be relentless and I think it's important to bring up some stats that were published in an info sheet, published by the government of Canada, just to kind of get this point across. So according to a youth study conducted in 2014, 65% of cyber bullying cases are chronic. Meaning that they last for over a year. And when we think about it, that's such a long time, especially for a kid to be constantly harassed. And the study also found that 70% of youth said that they would [00:06:00] report a cyber bullying incident or abusive content if they saw it online. But when they were asked why they wouldn't report it, 43% of the answers were because there's no point in reporting it, it would not help. 36% said that they just didn't want the person or the bully to find out. 29% said that they were afraid of the negative consequences and 27% said it would just take too much time to report. 15% think that someone else is just going to report it so they don't have to, and then 13% said they just don't know how to report an online cyber crime. The kids having the feeling that it's useless to report. I think is really scary and sad and them feeling like they have nowhere to turn and so they don't even bother trying to seek help is scary. And then being scared of the consequences is also something to think about as well. And I bring this up because I think it's important to mention that when you have those feelings as a kid, like you're experiencing these things [00:07:00] online, or in person, and you feel like no one is going to help you, that's traumatizing, but like those feelings probably get carried with you to adulthood so they're not just going to go away. And if you come across abuse online as an adult, or someone's like, cyberstalking you, you might have those feelings where you don't have anywhere to turn. You can't report them. And so I feel like those feelings kind of grow up with you and so a lot of people that are having kind of experiences as adults, remember those feelings that they had. This same survey also revealed that youth who are victims of cyber bullying, have much higher rates of anxiety, school absenteeism, eating disorders, self-harm, feeling unsafe and suicidal thoughts and tendencies, just to name a few. So, I mean, it really messes with kids and stays with them as they grow up. And further this study found that the ones that are the bullies, they have higher rates of delinquent behaviors that carry into adulthood. And they're more likely to be involved with violence [00:08:00] and display violent behavior later in their life. And they're more likely to commit adult offenses and have convictions against them by the time they're in their twenties. So it's not just like once you grow up, all these issues are gone, they fade away. Like I said, like this stuff stays with you even as a bully. That's this kind of your mentality as you grow up. 

Statistics Canada also reports that in 2014, approximately 2.5 million women and men in Canada, which is approximately 7% of the population aged 15 and over reported having experienced cyber-stalking in the previous five years. And they also revealed that prevalence of cyber-stalking is higher among women who were victimized in their youth. So it's kind of sad and scary. So it's like if you were bullied or victimized In your youth, for whatever reason, these people kind of like are able to seek you out and you're more vulnerable as an adult. So those, I think those trends are just kind of important to look out for. 

After all that we're going to [00:09:00] dive into the stories that we have to discuss today.

And the first one I have is about a young woman named Janae Gagnier. Janae was a 33 year old Instagram model and influencer. She was known on Instagram as Mercedes Morr and she had over 2.6 million Instagram followers. You know, her style of Instagram posts were very provocative and sexual. Some would describe them as degrading to women and they were just overly revealing and, you know, I have heard, while I was researching, her people make comments like, you know, she was disrespecting herself so how could she expect anyone else to respect her? But despite anyone's opinion on her style of posts, that's how she chose to express herself. And, you know, while some say it's inappropriate and even quote," soft core porn", she was likely just like a very confident, very confident in how she looked, very confident with like her body, and so she was kind of proud to show that off and that's just what she chose to do and it was obviously working for her. She had millions of [00:10:00] followers. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, if that's how she wants to express herself. And I mean, if you think is offensive or just like unagreeable, then you know, you don't have to follow her. No one's forcing you to look at these so, you know, just, I feel like you just keep your opinions to yourself.

She had a large following that enjoyed what she had to offer and she had a lot of famous followers as well. Like people like Snoop Dog and Cardi B and you know, she like partied with Drake and things like that, so she was in that kind of group of people. So despite her controversial social media style choices and posts, her family described her as a sweetheart and she was the life of the party. She cared about everyone around her and she was very protective of her family, especially her mom. Her father said in an interview with ABC 7 NEWS, that her life was very private. Like a lot of her friends didn't even know her real name. Like they just thought her name was Mercedes Morr. They didn't know her name was Janae [00:11:00] .So that's kind of her how private she kept her life or tried to keep her life. You know, he was very aware of her social media account and out of his own insecurities, you know, kind of with what I assume what he thought and knew that came along with this kind of lifestyle, he actually decided to move her like three different times, like probably telling her, like, I don't feel like you're safe here, let's move. And he did that three different times to try and keep her safe. Janae was actually very close with her father and they kept in contact regularly. Her father, Mark, told ABC 7 NEWS, that Janae would call him all the time and she would just say, "Oh, like, hey, I'm just checking up on you", and he'd be like, "No, I'm your dad I'm checking up on you." So they kind of had like this back and forth of like checking up on each other. And when Janae's sister told their dad that she hadn't talked to Janae since Thursday, so this would have been like three or four days, Janae's father, who actually lived close to Janae, knew something was wrong. She wasn't returning his calls either, wasn't returning [00:12:00] any messages. And on Sunday, August 29th, 2021, he knew immediately that something was way off. And so Janae lived in Richmond, Texas, which is just outside of Houston and her father didn't live too far away. And so when he wasn't able to get ahold of her, like I said, he went straight over to her house and he was knocking on the door. She didn't answer. And, you know, he kind of took matters into his own hands and he broke the door down, the front door, he just kicked it down. And I mean, you might think that's a bit extreme, but he was that sure that something was wrong, that he knew what he just had to do and that's what he did. And sadly, that feeling was right because the scene that he found inside her house that day is kind of disturbing as he describes to ABC 7 News. He says that he found Janae sprawled out on the floor at the bottom of the stairs. And, you know, he says that obviously sadness instantly took over and he says that it kind of looked like maybe [00:13:00] she was like changing or getting ready for bed and she had fallen down the stairs. And when he thinks about it now he's thought that he wishes kind of, that is what happened because that would be kind of a quick way to go, maybe very little fear. But he finds out that she actually had been strangled to death and her cause of death was strangulation with traumatic concussion. Her head was forcibly hit. And so, like I said, that when he saw Janae at the bottom of the stairs, he tells his girlfriend who was with him, to go upstairs and get something to like cover her up because she wasn't completely dressed and they do find out later that her clothes look all ripped and torn. And so when they go upstairs to get something to cover up Janae, they find that there is still a man in her house and he is in the process of trying to kill himself. He has a knife in his throat and he's still like gurgling and twitching on the floor when they find him. And they find out this is a 34 year old Florida man named [00:14:00] Kevin Accorto. And so Mark goes on to explain that he thinks that Kevin had been in Janae's apartment for two to three days, but they're not sure like when Janae died, so they're not sure if he killed her and then like stuck around for a couple days or if she had just recently been killed and he was still there. But they do know, and they, well they're pretty sure that he didn't kill himself until he heard them kicking down the door and that's when he stuck a knife in his own neck and he did end up dying very shortly after and this, the scene that they find there was like, there was blood throughout the entire house. And something else that was strange there was like writing all over the walls in what looked like lipstick and some was written in pen and it was like confessions. It was like him apologizing. It's the writings were things like, quote, "I should've stayed in Florida. I wish I never loved her. I was used. I hurt a lot of [00:15:00] people. Sorry to the landlords." And, and so, and there's just, there's lots of other stuff written everywhere. So it's very like, I don't, I don't know, like, I don't know how to explain what goes through your head.

Mark, Janae's father, says, quote, "My monthly conversation is, Janae, you have all these followers. Some probably because they love you, some because they like your look, some were crazy and some obsessed." So, I mean, they were, their family was totally like aware of her lifestyle and of the dangers that were out there and Mark says that Janae was always very careful, and that she never just opened the door for anybody. And like when he would come over to visit her, he actively like, like be on the phone with her being like, " Janae, I am at your front door. Open the door." and that's when she'd feel okay enough to open the door for him. So they aren't sure how this man got into her apartment. They are convinced that they did not know each other before this. And they're [00:16:00] saying that they believe that he was a crazed follower or stalker from one of her social medias and that somehow found out where she lived, traveled all the way from Florida to Texas to find her and eventually kill her. And there really isn't that much that has been released about how Kevin actually knew her and police are haven't released anything since this happened, which was August of 2021. And they are, I guess, still going through all of her Instagram accounts and messages to see if they did have some sort of relationship online. There were rumors going around that, you know, this was her sugar daddy and things like that, but there's nothing to like back that story up at all. And Janae also reportedly had an "only fans" account. And I'm assuming you guys know what "only fans" is? And her father says that she worked in private clubs as well, but there's not much detail out there about that. So, I mean, she had this lifestyle of kind of like selling, like actually selling her body on [00:17:00] "only fans" and maybe doing private shows at clubs. And then there's some speculation that kind of, she took it a step further where she was meeting with people at their house or people were coming to her house for like other sexual acts that she was getting paid for. Again, there's nothing to back that up. That was just speculation from people talking. We still don't know for sure if they had any type of relationship, or if this was some crazy stalker that happened to find her and get into her house. There really is no detail that has been released by the police about Kevin. Like I said, how he got to Texas, if he was already in Texas, or if he traveled deliberately from Florida to Texas to find her, or if he saw her at one of these clubs or knew her from "only fans", like that's still, we don't know. And one thing that does get me though about this case is like people try to write off her death or blame it on like her lifestyle and, you know, there's comments out there like," well, that's what you get for using men." And like I said before, like she was disrespecting herself so why would anybody else respect her? And so [00:18:00] I think it's ridiculous that, that people need to be reminded that like, regardless of your lifestyle, what you do for a living, whether your in sex work, how you dress, like no one is asking to be abused. No one's ever asking to be like sexually assaulted and especially no one's asking to be murdered. And like even Cardi B stepped up and was like defending her after people were blaming her lifestyle for her death. And so that's really all we have on this case. Like I said, there wasn't a lot of coverage, but it's so scary how this man, you know, she was trying to be so careful and moved around so much that she was found and, you know, murdered by this crazy guy. What do you guys think about this? 

AJ: That's crazy. Like the scene when you were describing like the scene and the writings on the wall, like I could picture it so vividly and it's super creepy. And it is really unfortunate, you know, like when they kill themselves, we never will know the answers. Right? Because if he had been apprehended, like they could have interviewed him and they could've gotten [00:19:00] more information about the nature of their relationship. But like stuff like that, like we'll never know, unfortunately. And he can't be brought to justice for what he did. So that's sad as well. 

Stephanie: Yeah, I just find that super creepy that he was still in the house when they got there. The fact that, like you said, Katie, that she tried to keep her life really, really private, but yet this guy somehow found her and knew where she lived, that's just really creepy. I find that this day and age, it's so easy to like find somebody if you're looking for them online, cause you have like Google maps and Google earth. It's like, you can pinpoint where actually people live. But the fact that her friends didn't know her actual name, which is odd to me, like they only knew her by her Mercedes Morr kind of like she had this like two different identities. Like one, like her real name of one of her like social media names so it was a really interesting case, but creepy nonetheless, and it's unfortunate that he killed himself. So now we will never really know what this [00:20:00] Kevin guy was all about. 

Katie: Yeah, it is unfortunate that obviously it happened and then he killed himself so we really won't probably have absolute answers. But going back to what you're saying about how, how easy it can be to find people, I was reading this other Forbes article. This man had tracked down someone that he was following on the social media by like zooming in, on her pictures and seeing the reflection in her eyes. And he found out what, like train route she was taking and that's how we found her. So like, stuff like that, like, you wouldn't even think about that. So you can be really super careful. And there was another one about how this man had somehow come across these videos that this 13 year old girl was posting and he was finding like the street signs. It's kind of like things in the background and piece it all together and he was, he, he like broke into her house one day. And so like, stuff like that, super scary. You're not thinking about it, but even if you are, there's people can find ways around it. So he's going to be so careful. 

AJ: Well, that reminds me of, did you guys watch the documentary on Netflix called Don't Fuck With [00:21:00] Cats? 

Katie: Oh, I meant to but I haven't yet. 

Stephanie: Yes, I have. 

AJ: Oh yeah, about Luka Magnotta, like this Canadian serial killer. Like the amateur sleuths did a similar thing that they were able to find a picture that he posted on a street and they're like, oh, these, these streetlights are unique to this park, this city and then they could find out. It was so interesting, like how they were able to do that. So it was reminding me of that. 

Stephanie: Katie, you will have to watch that. It's super good.

Katie: Yeah I will. I remember I was watching a show and it was like, the show was set somewhere else, but I'm like, oh, that looks so much like Vancouver. And then like, I pause it. I could see like the names of the streets, like the cross streets and it was two Vancouver streets. I'm like, this is filmed in Vancouver, like downtown. So, I mean, it's easy for people to like, especially if you're kind of familiar with that area to be like, I know where that is. So that's creepy. 

AJ: Yeah. That is what instantly came to my mind when I was thinking about that documentary. That's what they do. They take every single picture that he ever posted online and they dissect it and basically every detail and they're able to find him basically, which is super [00:22:00] interesting. 

Katie: Yeah. So that is my case about Janae Gagnier and I think that AJ is going to go next. 

AJ: So my case is the shooting of Robert Godwin. Steve Stevens was the perpetrator and he was dubbed the Facebook killer. Are you guys familiar with this case at all or know kind of what I'm referencing? 

Katie: No. Crazily enough. I've never even actually heard of it. 

Stephanie: Yeah, same here. I've never heard of it either. 

AJ: Yeah. So it took place in Cleveland, Ohio in April of 2017 and it's a really, really creepy and wild case. So on April 16th, 2017, so it was just a regular day for Robert Godwin, who was a 74 year old resident of Cleveland, Ohio, who that morning, which happened to be Easter Sunday, he woke up and had no idea that he would be the victim of unspeakable violence. He was gunned down on the street, not only in broad daylight, but on the internet for the world to see. And that same day, 37 year old, Steve Stephens woke up with murder on his mind, but he had no particular victim. [00:23:00] Shockingly Stephens picked someone at random to be on the other end of his pistol and that someone was Robert Godwin. In a horrific Facebook live post that was made by Stephens he films himself driving in his car, he's talking to the camera and he sees Godwin just walking on the sidewalk and films himself, getting out of his car and approaching him on the street. But before pulling out his gun, he says to Robert, "Can you do me a favor? Can you say Joy Lane?" Robert, of course, confused, who obviously doesn't know this man, but repeats "Joy Lane." Steve then responds by saying quote," She's the reason why this is about to happen to you" unquote, and he then pulls out his pistol and shoots Robert live on camera, leaving him lying in his own blood on the sidewalk. So while the act is totally random and no doubt horrific, the added layer of posting this video on Facebook brought a worldwide audience to the scene of this despicable act.

So I'm going to play a portion of that Facebook live video for you guys now. And just be [00:24:00] warned, there is a bit of explicit language in this clip I'm about to play. So listener discretion is advised.

Steve Stephens: I found somebody I am about to kill. This guy right here.

Oh shit! Watch it. Hi. Can you give me a favor? Can you say Joy Lane? Can you say Joy Lane? 

Robert Godwin: Joy Lane?

Steve Stephens: Yeah. She's the reason why all this is about to happen to you. How old are you?

Dog, just call. Just call, just call Jason or Gary and look at it, man. I can't talk to you right now, man. I fucked up, man. Yeah, I did. Just a couple of motherfuckers, man. I am at the point where I snapped. See the thing is man, every time I try to talk to y'all motherfuckers, man, y'all [00:25:00] always fucking blow me off or just make my shit seem like it ain't shit. I got a lot of built in anger and frustration, man.

Nah, hell no, I ain't going over there. Just this, this call, Jason, and tell him to look at that shit and go from there. But, let me call you, let me call you. Yeah, my name, my name is Steve on there. Dog. I just want to tell you dog, I love you, I love you, dog. Dog listen, man. I shamed. I shamed the force on the perseverance man. I shamed fourth district. I shames they don't make it. The most important, I shamed myself. I snapped, I snapped dog. I just snapped dog. I just snapped. I just killed 13 motherfuckers, man. That's what I did. I killed 13 people. They keep killing until, until, until they , they catch me. Fuck it. I posted, [00:26:00] I stay until they catch me. Dog, let me call you right back cause I got a lot of people calling me. But dog, all right.

Sorry about that, man. Listen, man. Um, like I say, I killed 13, so I'm working on 14 as we speak. I'm just running around hitting motherfuckers, man. I just, I just snapped, man. Fuck. You know, and this bullshit that I won't let a bitch or anybody get me on my hookup. But see, the thing is man, I'm 37 and all my fucking life, man, I just always been a fucking monster, man. I've had to prove myself. You know, always had to take the butts of people's jokes and it's like, you know, I'm a case manager for fucking beasts bro. Get my, oh yeah. Jim Jones. I ain't got, I ain't going to come to work tomorrow, you know? Um, but um, yeah, all because this bitch named Joy Lane you know, uh, she put me on my, my, my, my pushing point, man. You know. I was living over there with [00:27:00] her. I just woke up Friday and I just couldn't take it no more, man. I just left and um, yeah, here I am massacring motherfuckers. Record a day uh, today is the Easter Sunday Joy Lane massacre. 

AJ: So what do you guys think of that? 

Katie: Like stresses me out from the moment it starts and like, you know, it's like a, a real live video, like, so that was stressful.

Stephanie: Yeah. I was like goosebumps in me when he was went up to that man. And I was like, I know what's going to happen and I was like, I had to look away cause I couldn't like look at it.

Katie: I know that poor man, like it just like this elderly guy walking down the street with his groceries or something. Oh. Yeah, that's sad.

AJ: I know. And thankfully, that specific video that you guys just watched cut out, like the actual shooting part of the video, but when it was originally released, like the full thing was up like the full shooting and his body laying on the sidewalk. So its a good thing that that video was a little [00:28:00] bit edited down for that. 

Stephanie: So did he really kill 13 people? 

AJ: I will get into that. So this is the video that he posted on his Facebook account on the day that it happened which, like I said, was April 16th, 2017. So it was Easter Sunday. So he just randomly posted that, that video and then all of the follow-up videos. So I believe that video you saw was a montage, or it was all of the different videos he posted like put together into one video cause he posted several, um, from my understanding, but. So soon after the video went live on Facebook, a man hunt then ensued to find this man that was now known as quote, "the Facebook Killer."

Despite the immediate investigation into the motivations for the murder Stephens' Facebook profile was heavily scrutinized and it was discovered that he had posted several videos on his Facebook account on the day of the murder claiming that he planned to go on a killing spree. So in one post, which was part of the video that you guys just watched or just listened to, Stephens appears to be talking on the phone to someone and [00:29:00] claims that he quote "just snapped", quote, "I killed 13 people and I'm going to keep killing until they catch me.," end quote. He also says in the videos that this is the Easter Sunday Joy Lane massacre and Joy Lane, was of course the person's name, who he made Robert Godwin say before he shot him. So the question is who is Joy Lane and where does she fit into all of this? So at this point early on, Stephens is still missing. He's considered a fugitive on the run and there is a warrant out for his arrest for the charge of aggravated murder. Plus with the claim that there were 13 other victims, police have no idea how big this investigation is or where the perpetrator fled to. He could have left the state. He could be anywhere at this point, even though it was relatively, obviously pretty quickly that he was being looked for after the video went live, but he still was in a car. He could have driven hours away. The police very quickly track down Joy Lane who turns out to be the recent ex-girlfriend of Steve's. They had been together for a few years, but recently broke up just right before this. So [00:30:00] is this possibly a motive? And also the question that the police wanted to know, was Joy Lane herself going to be a target. So the police had reportedly placed Joy and her family, in a secure location for their own safety, just as a precaution. Joy explained to the police that yes, she and Steve had been in a relationship for a few years prior , but that he had a pretty bad gambling problem. So she said that he would often take trips and drive hours to different cities. He would spend lots of time in the casino and he would sleep in his car, wait for more money to become available, and then he would go and spend that money. So he would spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on each trip which to my understanding is that the trips were quite frequent. So because of his gambling addiction, he had massive debts and financial issues. He had been evicted from several apartments for non-payment of rent, and he was facing mounting student loan and credit card debts as a result. And she says, in interviews later on that, that was kind of the breaking point. She kind of gave him an ultimatum, that the gambling had to stop and the relationship doesn't wasn't really working out. So that relationship had [00:31:00] ended just right before this, I think it was just a couple of days before, or maybe the day of. Steve makes multiple references to Beech Brooks in several of his posts on Facebook, on the day of the murders and Beech Brooks is a behavioral health agency for children and families. And we know that Steve worked there as a vocational specialist. He says in the video that he was a case manager at that place. So in fact, he is wearing his ID badge at the time of the murder. So if you actually watch that video, I know you guys just listened to it, but if you watch it, you actually can see his ID badge. So upon news of the murder Beech Brooks released this statement to the media, quote," We were shocked and horrified to learn of this news, today. We were notified that it was on Facebook and we are waiting, along with everyone else, to hear if he has been apprehended. Our hearts go out to the family of Mr. Godwin and we are hoping that the Cleveland police will be able to apprehend Mr. Stephens as soon as possible and before anyone else is injured" end quote. So the fact that Steve wore his ID badge at the time of the murder and the fact that he posts the actual [00:32:00] crime on his own Facebook account and not under some anonymous account, shows that he had no intention of actually staying anonymous. So he either wanted the notoriety and attention that having this murder attached to his name would bring, or he had no real intention of surviving long enough to actually be captured. Either way, it's clear that he wanted to make sure that everybody knew he was responsible. So they didn't find any evidence that there were any other victims. So it's believed that he was just saying that. It wasn't actually true, that he had killed 13 people. Robert Godwin is the only known victim. So I don't know why he was saying that he wanted, and you can tell, he's trying to make it, he's giving it a name himself. He's saying this is the Easter Sunday, Joy Lane massacre. So he's trying to make it, he's trying to give it notoriety and trying to give it attention. Of course, it's just so unique. Like this was one of the first cases that ever had been, as far as I know, broadcast over Facebook live and early on Facebook itself actually came under fire [00:33:00] during the investigation because of the fact that the video was not removed from the platform immediately. So some sources that I've looked at say that the video was active for over two hours before it was finally removed and his account was then suspended for a violation of Facebook policy, obviously. In that time, there would be over 1000 people who saw the original video, but then who knows how many people, you know, shared it once the video is out there, it's out there, right? So even if the original one is taken down there could be other ones that people are posting that they took from the original source. So it could have been millions of people who had seen it before it was actually taken down. So it's just pretty crazy. So because of the scope of this investigation, so there was a nationwide manhunt for Stephens and I remember actually I knew of this case at the time that it was happening. It was yeah, 2017. So I remember being in the news that there was this manhunt and basically the whole entire United States was looking for him because again, they'd had no idea where he could have been. It's just so crazy to me, the fact that he posted this crime, like live on [00:34:00] Facebook for, for everyone to see with no, I don't know. What are your guys thought so far? Like, to me, I just find it so crazy that someone would able to do that, but obviously he's saying he snapped and I guess he just lost his mind clearly because no rational person would do that. 

Katie: I don't know. Yeah. He obviously snapped, but I feel like when you snap like that, you're not like aware that you snapped. Right? And I'm like, oh, I've snapped. And he's still continuing on. Like maybe looking back you're like, yeah, I snapped. But it's like, he's still in the middle of it cause they I'm going to go kill some more people cause I snapped. Like, I feel like that's a weird thing to say if you're in this like psychosis or whatever, kind of like state where you've lost your mind. Like, so I found that weird. 

AJ: Yeah. That's true. Actually. It is. I feel like if he had actually snapped and he was really in this kind of psychosis, he wouldn't think he was in a psychosis. He would think he was acting rationally. I feel. So the fact that he's like announcing that he snapped, maybe he actually really didn't. But I feel like you have to [00:35:00] like, no one does that, unless you've snapped. Right? Like no rational person does that. 

Stephanie: I was thinking the same thing. Kind of like what Katie was saying, like how it doesn't feel like to me, like he did snap. I feel like he was just, I feel like he was just doing it to get the attention cause like he said, like he kept his friends would always blow him off or like he didn't really get the attention that he needed. So I feel like that was his way to do it, but still I feel like no sound person would just kill somebody for no good reason. 

AJ: Yeah, no rational person would kill someone unless they had something wrong. But also the fact that he posted it online publicly for everyone to see. If he had snapped, like he could have just gone and shot somebody on the sidewalk, but like the added, the added layer of having it posted for everyone to see, like, what was the point of, I mean, obviously he wanted to be, was it famous or he wanted to have the notoriety, like he's dubbing this the Joy Lane Easter Sunday massacre, like he's trying to make it a thing. 

Katie: Yeah. Like he recorded it purposefully for, you know, it to be out there for people to see. And maybe like, I don't know, maybe [00:36:00] I'm wrong, but when you'd like snap like that, I don't think you're thinking of like, oh, I want, you know, the whole world to see what I've done or maybe you do. I don't know. But it's just, it just seems like it was intentional. And he had thought about it and then went to do it. And I always find it super sad when someone's like, he's trying to get back with this Joy Lane so he goes and kills an elderly innocent man. "Take that Joy!" You know what I mean? Like, not like he should've went and killed her, but I mean, like just leave the innocent guy out of it.

AJ: I know. It's like, I don't really know where that logic kind of comes in. It's like I'm pissed at her so I'm going to go kill a random elderly man on the side of the road, which is weird. But also going back when I was doing the research for this case, I was, that's what actually got me thinking about the "Don't Fuck With Cats" documentary. Because in that one, if you watch the documentary, like he's posting all these videos of him killing all of these cats and stuff, but he's posting it through like anonymous, anonymous accounts. So no one knows that's him. All of these internet sleuths are trying to track him down whereas this guy's being very [00:37:00] blatant. Like he doesn't take any efforts to hide the fact that it's him, like he's wearing his ID badge during the killing and in the video. And he's posting it on his own account. So obviously he didn't have any intentions of actually staying alive for very long because he's being very blatant about it. So that was just a thought I had too. 

Stephanie: Yeah, I just think, I mean, it's sad to think this and that poor innocent man, there was no rhyme or reason why he killed him. But I feel like he only did it because he wanted that attention from his friends or from everybody because he, like you said, he wasn't getting it from any, like he wasn't getting attention. He always had the like. Like, he was always like the butt of the jokes and stuff like that. So I think that's why he did it on Facebook was to get that attention, but still nobody deserves to randomly die because of someone's stupidity. 

AJ: But that's also, that's what he's saying though. He's saying he's always the butt of jokes. He's saying that he didn't get the attention , he could just be trying to justify it. We don't really know what the actual true story is. And we obviously may never know.

Stephanie: Yeah, that's true. [00:38:00] I never thought about that. But yeah. 

Katie: And it's also sad that like, okay, maybe his friends did treat him really shitty, but like go find new friends kind of thing. Like, you know what I mean? That's easier said than done, but like, you don't have to like, stay with these people that make you feel like shit and they don't take you seriously. And they, the only way for them to take you seriously, is for you to actually kill somebody and post a video. Like, yeah. It's just like, it went to that. Yeah. 

Stephanie: You did say he had a gambling problem, right? Or like his girlfriend said he had a gambling problem. 

AJ: Yeah.

Stephanie: So maybe like that, like that stress of like not having any money, trying to like get money to whatever, and then the stress of like her leaving and maybe he did just snap and still nobody should deserve to die, but like if he had a gambling problem, maybe he wanted all of his quote "debt" to go away. So that's why he posted live, so he could get caught, go to jail and he wouldn't have to like deal with the outside world really, I guess. But still. 

AJ: I don't know. It's also too the fact that he was a [00:39:00] caseworker with like children and families is kind of concerning. And it just kind of goes to show you that I don't know, just because you're a social worker, doesn't mean you have your shit together either. So I don't know. I just kept felt kinda bad for the people that he was working with. Imagine how they felt after knowing like their social worker was deeply troubled. 

Katie: Yeah, so it's like he obviously had some sort of like training to like teach people or like help people deal with, you know, bad situations and like hard emotions. And yet he still couldn't do that for himself. So you can kind of see like how kind of serious this mental issue was that he had going on. 

AJ: Yeah. So it's just really sad and scary all the way around. So because of the scope of the investigation, like I said, there was, a nationwide manhunt for Stephens. Just after 11:00 AM on the 18th, the manhunt came to an end after a worker at a McDonald's drive through in Erie Pennsylvania recognized him. And he put his order in through the drive-through and so this worker, once [00:40:00] she thought it was him, delayed his order so that she could call the police. They told him that there was a delay with his fries and asked him if he could pull off to the side. As he waited, and then at that time she went and she called the police. However, when the police showed up at Stephens fled the scene and so it, a car chase sort of ensued and they got, they drove, I believe it was a couple of miles and then the police eventually had to do like a tactical move where they do that thing that you see in movies where it's like, they do that weird turn and like pull out and stop your car. So they had to do that. And then as they approached the car, he shot himself in the head. So he never actually got arrested or anything like that, and he was pronounced dead at the scene and yeah, like I said, there was no, like, they did the investigation into his motives and the murder itself, and there was no evidence that there was any other victims. So the whole thing about him killing 13 people, I think was just him trying to make it a thing. He wanted to be known as killing all these people, but they, the only known victim was Robert Godwin. It's really sad, you know, the [00:41:00] 74 year old man, and then they interview his family and some of the stuff I've seen and it's just really, really sad overall. But just goes to show you that, like, I don't know, he wanted, obviously he wanted notoriety. He wanted the fame and the attention, which is something that social media can do. Right? Like before social media, there wouldn't be a way for you to be, I mean, I guess you can cause like Ted Bundy and all those serial killers existed before social media, but not in like the same way. It's like, they're all trying to one up each other and they all want to be the one to like post the act on the site to get that attention, I guess. 

Katie: It's scary to think that, like, he obviously had this mindset where he wanted this massacre. So if he had happened to stumble across like a big group of people, he might've just like opened fire on like this group of people and he, but he only happened to see this one, man. So, I mean, it could like it could have been an actual massacre. It's still sad.

AJ: Yeah. And like I said, they, they found him the McDonald's was in Erie, Pennsylvania, and I Google mapped it and it's only about an hour [00:42:00] and a half to two hours from where he committed the original crime. So he'd only driven like two hours away. And so I don't know where he was in that time in between when he wasn't driving to Erie, Pennsylvania. But yeah. So he wasn't actually didn't even end up being that far away from where the original crime happened, but. 

Stephanie: It's such a cowardly way to like, go, like he just killed himself cause he didn't want to like face life in prison or something like that. It's like he posted his killing online and was all brave about that, but yet when it came to actually doing the, like doing the time or whatever, it's like, oh, sorry, I'm not man enough to like deal with what I did. 

AJ: I know it's like, you wanted to do that thing. You want to do the crime, but didn't want to do the time. So, and that's what I said too, because the fact that he was posting it on his own account, he had his ID badge. Like he had no intention of trying to escape capture. He must have known that by doing those things that he was going to eventually be captured. So that's why I think like he obviously planned to kill himself from the beginning. He must've known that. Yeah. 

Katie: It wasn't like he was trying to get [00:43:00] away and do it as if like no one would know who it was and know who he was. He was definitely doing it so people knew exactly who it was. 

AJ: Yeah. So he, he must have known and I think an ABC news clip I saw about it. They're talking about like other similar instances where people are posting violent acts on Facebook and stuff. And Facebook did come under fire, like during this and it really started the whole thing of like, what are the responsibilities of the platform? Because yes, there are platforms. So should they be held accountable for what every single individual person puts on the platform? 

Katie: I mean like two hours is a long time to have a video up like that, but I feel like for something like Facebook where there's like, you know, millions of people on there and people reporting stuff left and right. Like, I feel like for them to be able to pinpoint this one thing is that serious in that amount of time is I think pretty fast when you think about it. 

AJ: Yeah, I know. And like, I don't know what a solution would be, obviously get it removed right away. Or like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know [00:44:00] the tech world. Is there sort of like some way they could filter stuff like that before it even gets posted, so they can't allow it to even be posted. Like, I don't know what that looks like. 

Katie: Someone that like watches everything before it's posted, but that's like, obviously impossible. So I don't know how they would be able to filter like stuff like that out.

AJ: Yeah. But I feel like in today's technology age, like there has to be some type of technology where they can, like some computer will, will automatically filter out, you know, I don't know. I feel like there has to be something, but also can't think of if there was something why they wouldn't want to do that. 

Katie: Yeah. But also the fact that like somebody, I mean, you can't differentiate sometimes between what's real and what's not. So would like an animated system be able to tell like, oh, that's a real gunshot versus like a movie clip or something.

AJ: Yeah, that's true. I feel like it would just get way too tricky. Yeah. I dunno if there's a way that that would ever work, but I guess two hours is a long time though, and like I said, millions of people could have seen the clip before it got removed. Or once they even removed the original clip, it's still going to be posted once it's shared, they have to get rid of every [00:45:00] single person who shared it. Right? 

Katie: Somebody could have saved that to their computer, right? Like it could stay there probably forever. 

AJ: Yeah. And then obviously like that, that clip, like that clip and that video is still out there. Like you guys just watched it, so it's still out there. Once it's posted it's out in the world forever.

That's all I have on that case, but it's pretty uhh! When Facebook really started to come under fire for a lot of practices and like misinformation and like kind of what their role is and preventing or filtering out the kind of stuff that the people are putting on the platform. So anyway, yeah, sad. 

So, yeah, in both of these cases, you can see kind of the role that social media can play and some of the harms that come along with these social media platforms. So thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Crime Family.  We hope you enjoyed the episode. Until next time you can follow us on all the social media platforms. You can follow us on Instagram at Crime Family Podcasts. We're on [00:46:00] Twitter at Crime Family Pod one, and we also have a Facebook page crime family podcast, and send us an email if you have any case suggestions or some feedback for us. You can email us@crimefamilypodcastatgmail.com. 

So thank you so much and we'll be back next week with another case for you guys.

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